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NPR's Public Editor Talks Journalism Ethics and Transparency

Elizabeth Jensen in NPR's public editor.
Allison Shelley
/
NPR
Elizabeth Jensen in NPR's public editor.

If you have a complaint about something you've heard on NPR, Elizabeth Jensen wants to hear from you. As NPR's public editor, Jensen is the liaison between listeners and the NPR newsroom. Prior to working for NPR, Jensen covered media for the New York Times, the L. A. Times and the Columbia Journalism Review. Jensen is in Missoula to talk about journalism ethics and transparency, and she sat down in our studios with Sally Mauk.

Sally Mauk:Elizabeth, you're the liaison between the listeners and NPR. If the listeners hear something on the news that they take issue with or that makes them angry even sometimes they contact you, what's their number one complaint? You've been doing this for about five years.

Elizabeth Jensen:It depends on the year. We track it monthly and and yearly. We're still putting together the statistics for the past year. But I would say it's probably political bias from both sides. So we break it down. Those who think NPR overall is too favorable towards liberals and those who think NPR overall is too favorable towards conservatives. And again, it depends on what's in the news and it depends on the time. But it's roughly even probably at this point, it's a little bit more. Those who think NPR is a liberal bias versus those who think NPR is a conservative bias.

Mauk:And when they complain about liberal bias, what do they usually complain about specifically? How does that manifest for the listener?

Elizabeth Jensen in NPR's public editor.
Credit Allison Shelley / NPR
/
NPR
Elizabeth Jensen in NPR's public editor.

Jensen:So that is a good question. When we get these emails, a lot of times we'll just get, you know, very broad. 'I never hear my point of view on the radio.' And what we do is we then say thank you. But, you know, in order to address your concerns or to look in them, we need you to be more specific. And we say that pretty much to everyone who just lodges a broad complaint. I mean, our job is to really, again, help the newsroom understand what the concerns of the listeners are and to bring some transparency back to the listeners, right? So the listeners sometimes have concerns and it's because they didn't hear something or they can't, no one can, listen to two hours in the morning, two hours in the evening. And interviews change. You know, All Things Considered, may be two hours. But the first two hours may be different from 5 to 7 than from 9 to 11, from newsbreaks. So no one can hear everything. And so we asked people to get very specific. And a lot of it is that they didn't hear, they only heard one interview. And so they think, well, you know, I haven't heard my side talking.

So we do track the number of interviews. And then we did this in 2018, we haven't done it in 2019, but there was a six-month period in 2018 where, month by month, the number of interviews between Republicans versus Democrats varied pretty widely. And then at the end of six months, it was off by two. So it was exactly even. The newsroom doesn't count that way. They try to be fair. They try to hear multiple views, but they don't say, OK, we have to hear from X, Y and Z, but in general, it does work out.

Mauk:So you have written about it's actually sometimes harder to get Republican voices on NPR than it is Democrat voices.

Jensen:I would say in specific times. So I have actually had not looked back over 20 years, but there've been two times during my tenure where the newsroom has had a hard time booking Republicans. So, one was during the Kavanaugh hearings.

Mauk:What's your speculation about why?

Jensen: I don't know. You'd have to ask, you know, you'd have to ask the guests as to why they don't want to. But I think politicians of all stripes do that, right? So if you have a a difficult issue and you don't necessarily want to be pressed on it; some politicians are up for reelection, etc. Maybe they don't want to be pinned down. Maybe they feel like they're in a difficult position. But I don't know. You'd have to ask them.

Mauk:But because one of my thoughts is that during this polarized time that we live in and the plethora of media out there, conservative politicians can only -- if they choose -- appear on conservative media and liberal politicians can appear on liberal media or media they perceived to be liberal and that that's happening more and more.

Jensen:Right. The bubble factor is it's significant. I would agree with that.

The other factor is not just media. It's that social media has made it very, digital has made it very easy for politicians to go directly to their voters, to listeners, to readers, and bypassing any intermediary altogether. I mean, I think that's in some ways just as big a factor, right? You don't have to put up with in an interview at all.

Mauk:And be challenged.

Jensen:Right. Right. You can just go directly and get your message out.

Mauk:Do you think it's important Elizabeth, I'm sure you do; more and more in this day and age for journalists to talk about what they do and explain how they do it?

Jensen:Yes, I am a big advocate. That is my, that's one of my main roles. I'm very happy that NPR sees the value in having a public editor, also known as a news ombudsman. NPR is the last major mainstream news outlet, if you want to call it that, that has a public editor. The New York Times used to The Washington Post, used to ESPN, used to, all those roles have been eliminated.

Yes, I think it's crucial to talk about, you know, what we as journalists do. My job boils down to accountability and transparency, right? And I don't speak for the newsroom. I don't speak for NPR. I only speak for myself. I'm an independent critic on behalf of the audience, but a lot of my job does break down to an institutional, if you will, transparency. I'm saying, this is why the newsroom did what it did.

Mauk:Do you think NPR "preaches to the choir?"

Jensen:As someone who covered NPR in the past for much of my career before I actually worked for NPR, I would say that probably that was more of a factor 20 years ago. I think NPR works very hard to get a wide range of views on the air. If the listener mail I get is any indication, they have a wide range of audience people, right? So we get a lot of complaints from multiple sides of the spectrum. And you know, one of the things I try to do is sort of figure out who's really a listener who is complaining, and who's just complaining, because, I don't know, they read some critique and some news outlet that said write to the public editor and complain. And it's pretty clear to me who the real listeners are. And I would say NPR has a pretty wide range when it comes to the political views of its listeners.

Mauk:One of the joys for me for working for public radio is how engaged our listeners always have been. The feedback has been, I would guess, greater in public radio than some other media because people feel like it is "public radio."

Jensen:Exactly right. And so that's what makes my role fun, right?

Mauk:Right.

Jensen:Right. Because I get to engage with people, and we get some people who just want to complain, but the real interest and and payback for me, if you will, is when you can really engage and you can say, you know, look, 'I looked into this and I think you're right.'

Mauk:And the newsroom will respond?

Jensen:It will. Yeah, absolutely ...

Mauk:Sometimes defensively, but not always ...

Jensen:Of course, right, no one likes to have their work critiqued. But I've had a couple lovely instances where I've written a very critical column and I've sent it to the editor in advance, and we're just, you know, giving them a heads up and said, you know, this is where I come down and just want you to be aware. And I'll get an e-mail back saying, thank you. It's not fun to go through this process, but I appreciate that NPR has this role. I think it keeps our journalism better, makes our journalism better, keeps it strong. I mean, I do think news organizations are trying to be accountable.

Mauk:Elizabeth Jensen's role as public editor for NPR is a crucial one, I think, because it keeps NPR accountable to its listeners. And Elizabeth Jensen will be part of a public panel on journalism ethics Nov. 5 at 7 p.m. at University's Center Theater on the University of Montana campus. And that's free and open to the public. So if want to hear more about what Elizabeth does and what other journalists locally are thinking about these issues. Please attend that this evening. Elizabeth, thank you so much for being with us and talking about what you do and why you do it.

Jensen:Thank you. I enjoyed it.

Copyright 2020 Montana Public Radio. To see more, visit Montana Public Radio.

Retired in 2014 but still a presence at MTPR, SallyMaukis a University of Kansas graduate and former wilderness ranger who has reported on everything from the legislature to forest fires. She also taught broadcast writing and reporting in the University of Montana journalism school.